With the standoff over the Scarborough Shoal (“Huangyan Island” to the Chinese and “Panatag Shoal” to the Filipinos) having entered its second month, many are wondering how long the tiny Philippines will stand its ground as Beijing steps up its diplomatic and military pressure.
If this were simply a legal matter, the deck would surely be heavily stacked against the Chinese. The shoal is located clearly within the country’s 200-nautical-mile Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) and hundreds of miles from the Chinese mainland.
International law also favors the Philippines on another level. Following the Island of Palmas Case as an international legal precedence, Manila’s “actual, effective, and continuous” exercise of control and sovereignty over the Scarborough Shoal gives it the upper hand in any third party international legal arbitration. In fact, in 2010, the northern town of Masinloc (200 kilometers away) claimed the shoal as part of its municipality.
Just recently, in accordance with the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea, Manila was able to secure its claim over the Benham Rise – a maritime region located within Manila’s EEZ to its east in the Pacific Ocean. No wonder, a confident Manila has sought to take the Scarborough dispute to the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea.
However, territorial disputes are fundamentally about how disputing parties employ all elements of their national power to secure their interest – and this is precisely where the Philippines is heavily outmatched, outspent, and outgunned.
On the surface, the odds favor the Chinese. In terms of military expenditure alone, the Chinese dwarf all their neighbors across the South China Sea. While the Philippines’ decrepit and under-equipped armed forces subsists on a meager annual expenditure of around $1.5 billion, ranking 59th in the world, the Chinese are the world’s second largest spenders, with their $100 billion plus budget (a conservative estimate) set to double by 2015.
Facing a paltry navy, with Manila deploying its only warship Gregorio Del Pilar to the area, the Chinese have not only launched new military exercises in the vicinity of the dispute, but also sent an armada of vessels to intimidate Manila.
Moreover, although both countries are signatories to UNCLOS, they have in the past expressed reservations in terms of subjecting their territorial disputes to any kind of international arbitration. While former Philippines President Joseph Estrada made this position clear during his administration, Beijing, in a 2006 written statement to the U.N. general secretary, expressed its unwillingness to subject itself to arbitration over issues such as “maritime delimitation, territory and military activities.” According to China’s notorious 9-dash line, much of the South China Sea region belongs to Beijing.
China also has economic muscle. During the administration of former President Gloria Arroyo, China – through its multi-billion concessionary loans and promise of more projects and alleged kickbacks – was able to influence Manila’s top leadership, culminating in the passage of the 2009 “baseline law,” which effectively abandoned Philippines’ claim to disputed areas in the South China Sea.
Now facing a more independent-minded leadership, the Chinese have resorted to other economic measures to coax the Philippines into submission: the Chinese are utilizing a combination of travel advisories and threats of economic sanctions to intimidate their counterparts into compromise. For instance, China, a $250 million market for Philippine banana exports, has suddenly imposed restrictions on banana imports from the Manila, allegedly due to safety concerns.
Upping the ante, state-backed Chinese media has called for sanctions and punishment for Manila. While the Global Times called for sanctions and blamed the Philippines for stoking tensions in Sino-American relations, the Liberation Army Daily accused the Philippines of hiding behind America’s skirt by stating: “The United States’ shift in strategic focus to the east…has provided the Philippines with room for strategic maneuver…emboldening them to take a risky course.”
In response, the Philippines has used proactive diplomacy to shore-up regional support for its claims. Although the United States has expressed its neutrality over the outcome of any arbitration, lawyers from the U.S. have been providing legal aid, and the U.S. has been bolstering its military options, in addition to announced support earlier this year. Meanwhile, other countries, from Australia to South Korea and Japan have also indirectly increased their military assistance.
So far, one thing is clear: the Philippines isn’t alone in this row, and neither is it in the mood to back off anytime soon.
Javad Heydarian is a Manila-based foreign affairs analyst focusing on international security and development issues. His articles have been featured or cited in Foreign Policy in Focus, Asia Times, UPI, the Transnational Institute and the Tehran Times, among other publications.
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Cyrus
Actually pretty successful, all my recent purchases are either locally made or imports not of China.
HHop
How many months have passed since you last stopped or tried your best to stop buying all poison-laden Chinese-made goods?
Chinese
“International law also favors the Philippines on another level…”, I don’t know how come this wordy. Clearly, Huangyan Island is NOT within 12 Nautical Mile of Territorial Sea of Philippine side. And it’s EEZ, EEZ from very beginning DO NOT means it’s territorial sea, and negotiate on EEZ is subject to many other issues and claims.
What Philippine side want to do is based on EEZ to include Huangyan island into its territorial sea, which is NOT the idea of UNCLOS,normally things is do in another way around; while what China side want to do is first define 9-dot territorial sea, then EEZ, based on historical claim.
Errol T
This is beating a dead horse, but to repeat, China HAS NO CLAIMS ON PANATAG SHOAL OR ANY OF THE REEFS OR ISLANDS WITHIN 200 MILES OF THE PHILIPPINES.
We do not define it as our boundary. We define it as our EEZ. And the first E in EEZ stands for EXCLUSIVE. Meaning, it is the Philippines’ own business to decide what to do with the natural resources withing 200 miles off our shores.
Just because China says someone from history claimed those reefs as China’s doesnt make it so. I could say the moon belonged to me but no one would accept that. China never settled those reefs and shoals because they’re UNINHABITABLE. The term ‘island’ is misleading. An island isn’t supposed to disappear during high tides. At best those shoals and reefs are fishing grounds, and when it comes to fishing, Filipinos have the right since our fishermen are a LOT closer to them than Chinese fishermen.
scdad07
Latest stats:
China “Exports rose 15.3 percent in May from a year earlier, a much stronger rate than market expectations of a 6.8 percent increase, and up from April’s rise of 4.9 percent.
Both exports and imports hit record highs in value terms. China’s trade surplus reached $18.7 billion in May, compared with a forecast of $16.2 billion. China booked a surplus of $18.4 billion in April.
Trade with the U.S. rose 12 percent in the first five months of this year, compared with a mere 1.3 percent rise in trade with Europe.”
Jean
Still, there is a significant reduction in China’s projected growth – we all know that below the 8 percent mark, China might face a serious problem.
Errol T
Assuming your numbers are from credible sources, then good for China!
Aside from boasting, or sharing if you look at it your way, what’s the relevance of the numbers to the article?
Chad
For a starter, US is the world’s biggest real economy – and expected to remain as the financial center of the world for some time to come. When US sneezes, the world catches cold. Now with Europe having it’s own troubles after the Lehman crisis – originating from WallStreet – to whom can China sell, if US goes down? Most emerging markets are dependent on commodity exports to China and West, so even they can’t be a real market. Domestically, China is also yet to establish a strong sustainable consumer market. So don’t be so upbeat with US going down, because China is far from self-sufficient, wealthy, and stable.
VICTOR
BIGGEST REAL ECONONOMY ON BORROWED FUEL(MONEY)?
U R RIGHT THE DISEASE HAS SPREAD TO EUROPE AS WELL.
CHINA CAN NOW HAVE A SIESTA AND SELL TO OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD AND DEVELOP ITS DOMESTIC MARKET AT A EVEN SLOWER PACE.
IN ANY EVENT AMERICA IS A DEBTOR AND U CAN LEND SO MUCH AND NO MORE
MAYBE LESS WORSHIP OF GDP MAY SAVE THE WORLD RESOURCES AND CLIMATE CHANGE.
THANK AMERICA FOR TAKING THE LEAD?
Sin Lok
China will be next your losing your best customers! I wonder what would happen to the Chinese Economy when it implodes. I guess no more doubling that 100+ Billion defense budget.You got to feed that 1.3 Billion population. We can sell you bananas but you have to be nice us!
John Chan
@Sin Lok,
Bad mouthing and ill wishing are the signs of desperations. A lot of American, Japanese, and Europeans experts have been saying the same thing as yours for 30 years; instead China is going to replace USA as the world largest economy (in exchange rate, not PPP which has long surpassed USA) in shorter and shorter time.
Philippines is a dead lost, because it is incapable of making prudent long term national decisions to build up itself; instead of latching on China’s economic growth, it hedges on USA’s bellicose behavior and starts an arms race against China, which costs money and benefits no one.
Besides you do not understand capitalism; after the bananas industry in Philippines suffered enough, capitalists will come in making a killing by offering long term suppressed price contracts, that has happened in the Central and South America, and CIA even helped to make sure those capitalists got the contracts and suppressed prices.
Sin Lok
@John Chan
Wow a lecture about capitalism from John Chan! If your customers aka the West don’t have money they don’t buy your products (iPad,iPhone,Toys with lead and other Chinese junk ). No money for you simple factory closes(no more market). Europe and US are the worlds biggest consumers and China is the worlds biggest producer. We are all in deep shit! Snap out of that illusion that your gonna be the worlds biggest economy. Snap out of that illusion that you own the South China Sea. And stop talking about the CIA the agency has lost it’s relevance. This is not the 1960′s or the 1970′s were the CIA was the all powerful agency. The world is different now. Breakout of that PRC shell see the world as it is.
John Chan
@Sin Lok,
PRC is very open to the world, the way it can play capitalist game scares the world of capitalist out of their wits, they are doing all they can to block China from using their rules to beat their games. They all set up laws to prevent China from getting into their market in any meaningful way. Whenever China tries to make a meaningful investment in their markets, both right and left of that nation will become hysterical, yelling commie is coming and the sky is falling.
The West should honor their words; let the free market be a free market.
Lung Sha Shou
Chan – You say “Bad mouthing and ill wishing are the signs of desperations.”
IT IS VIRTUALLY ALL YOU DO.
You are indeed desperate.
I am confident you have NO understanding of “capitalism”, “communism” or even the organised criminal activities of the Beijing Gang of Crinimals and their princeling sons and daughters.
You have no standards and complete hypocrisy. Have you heard of the United Fruit company? Well the US did dreadful things on their behalf once – such things are as nothing compared to the forced seizures of land and revolting corruption endemic within the state corrupted capitalism of your masters.
Its a pity your understanding doesn’t go beyond the lies of the Ministry of Propaganda and your whining racist resentments.
Grow Up and try and educate yourself.
Take a leaf out of your leader’s book and go and get a real education in a Western country if you cant why not try and steal one? You are obviously all in favour of the cyber theft perfected by your countrymen.
Its a pity that creatures like you have such ill will and complete disregard for the well being of other human beings.
Its a pity that you trade in lies and have no regard for the truth.
John Chan
@Lung Sha Shou,
You are NOT qualified to lecture anybody on anything, because you have no integrity at all, bashing China and other bloggers with a fake Chinese name stoops real low and is cowardice.
Your whole comment is nothing but huffing and puffing, are you showing me this is what Westpac education all about? It is pretty sad, isn’t it? Logic, reason and morality are out of window in the Westpac education.
Forced seizure of land in China is corruption, but what the USA did in the Central and Latin Americas is state terrorism. Using China’s corruption to white wash USA’s state terrorism is really immoral, conscienceless and the wrong thing to do.
Forced seizure of land is the right of a sovereign; there are Expropriation Acts in every nation to enforce such right by the governments. Besides the whole America, Australia, Ryukyu Kingdom, … are forced seizure lands from the natives by the Europeans via genocide.
Civil crimes are universal, that’s why all nations maintain horrendous police forces to suppress crimes as well civil rights. USA has the world largest prisoner population; Japanese Yakuza even makes Mafia look amateur.
Please think before write, you are talking to another blogger, if the other blogger is a creature what makes you? Self-incriminating is a sign of mental deficiency.
Errol T
Indeed. Let free markets be free markets. In extension, a free nation should be a free nationa and a free world should be free world.
What does your freedom in China get you? So please pardon me if we Filipinos don’t ‘latch’ on to PRC.
ACT
@ John Chan
You Said:
“ou are NOT qualified to lecture anybody on anything, because you have no integrity at all, bashing China and other bloggers with a fake Chinese name stoops real low and is cowardice.
Your whole comment is nothing but huffing and puffing, are you showing me this is what Westpac education all about? It is pretty sad, isn’t it? Logic, reason and morality are out of window in the Westpac education.
Forced seizure of land in China is corruption, but what the USA did in the Central and Latin Americas is state terrorism. Using China’s corruption to white wash USA’s state terrorism is really immoral, conscienceless and the wrong thing to do.
Forced seizure of land is the right of a sovereign; there are Expropriation Acts in every nation to enforce such right by the governments. Besides the whole America, Australia, Ryukyu Kingdom, … are forced seizure lands from the natives by the Europeans via genocide.
Civil crimes are universal, that’s why all nations maintain horrendous police forces to suppress crimes as well civil rights. USA has the world largest prisoner population; Japanese Yakuza even makes Mafia look amateur.
Please think before write, you are talking to another blogger, if the other blogger is a creature what makes you? Self-incriminating is a sign of mental deficiency.”
so now you reveal your true colors as the communist CPC dog you truly are. if you have nothing positive or insightful to add, THEN LEAVE!
John Chan
@Chad,
US’ economy is not a real economy; major portion of its GDP is services based on mark to model valuation, i.e. the valuation is made up by unverifiable accounting trickery, just like the Fed printing money thru the thin air.
US is not world financial center, it is only world largest equity market, London is the world currency and insurance centers.
Your ignorance will not help to arrest USA’s decline in the world financial matters.
Chad
In nominal terms, U.S. is still the largest economy (maybe well into the third decade of the century). In PPP terms, sure China may have passed U.S. for years already, but it still doesn’t undercut America’s centrality to world’s economy. You can’t also deny the fact that the industrial sector in the U.S. has been making a comeback, and just because services constitute a large part of your economy, it doesn’t make your economy is any less consequential – most design, patents, high-end innovation and all still take place in the U.S. The manufacturing base may have shifted to the East and South, but U.S. MNC’s – with headquarters back home – are still recouping much of the profit margin.
Nothing in you statement proves that U.S. is not consequential. I will agree with you if the issue is whether the U.S. is on the wrong track by hollowing out its industrial base. If any thing, the 2008 Great Recession simply underscores the centrality of U.S. to the world economy – now the emerging markets are feeling the colds too, China, India, Vietnam, and Brazil are already suffering from sharp decline in their quarterly growth. The so-called ‘decoupling’ has not happened it seems.
Now, speaking of ignorance, Hong Kong (not London) is the world’s financial center. But, what I meant was in terms of equity markets, where America is still a world leader (thanks for clarifying that). You can also not deny the fact that NYC has been competing with London for the top spot in financial terms, before Hong Kong and Singapore and Shanghai and other emerging markets came into the picture.
ACT
@John Chan
back up your claims with solid data and sources that we can link to. everything that i have read in terms of statistics that are readily available if one does a simple “Google” search suggest that what you are saying amounts to complete and utter tripe. While Forbes and other think tanks predict that the PRC will have a larger economy than that of the US by as soon as 2015, this is only due to the size of its population; the middle class of the PRC is the same size as the population of the United States (approx 300 million people). In real terms, however, the purchasing power of the average PRC citizen who resides within the middle class is a great deal lower than someone who lives within the united states ($6000 [PRC] as compared to $44389 [USA]).
with that out of the way….
the US also beats out the PRC in military terms; higher quality in weaponry, aircraft and ground vehicles, as well as being better trained. furthermore, your first aircraft carrier (an offensive, not defensive weapon) will not be ready for at least another year and the next three–all smaller than american contemporaries–will not be completed for at least another decade. On top of this, your premier anti-access system–the DF-21–is hideously inaccurate and easily disrupted.
while the PRC already has some veto over American decisions due to the Pentagon’s unwillingness to “fight a land war in asia”, it is by no means a peer. yet.
Mikhail_fromPH
This article is very interesting
“http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/361502/the-filipinochinese-friendship-day”
the article as follow -
MANILA, Philippines — TODAY, June 9, 2012, we observe Filipino-Chinese Friendship Day, now on its 11th year, pursuant to Presidential Proclamation No. 148 issued on January 22, 2002.
This year is also the 37th Anniversary of the opening of the Philippines’ diplomatic relations with the People’s Republic of China on June 9, 1975. The appointment of Sonia C. Brady as the new Philippine Ambassador to Beijing is seen as a positive move in our bilateral relations.
Filipino-Chinese relations can be traced back to as early as 200 B.C. when traders, migrants, and travelers from mainland China came to the Philippines and intermarried with native inhabitants. These Chinese visitors enriched Philippine history and culture. Their descendants came to figure prominently in almost every aspect of Philippine life as chronicled by China’s Imperial Ambassadors, notably Chao Ju-kua (1225) and Wang Ta-yuan (1349), highlighting the Sino-Philippine trade and cultural relations that mutually benefitted the two countries. The launching of the “China-Philippines Years of Friendly Exchanges” early this year further reinforced this relationship.
The first celebration of Filipino-Chinese Friendship Day was held on June 7, 2002. It was highlighted by the inauguration of two bridges – the Filipino-Chinese Friendship Bridge and the Manila-Beijing Friendship Bridge.
We greet the People’s Republic of China, Her Excellency Ambassador Ma Keqing and the Chinese communities, all over the Philippines and the world, as we celebrate Filipino-Chinese Friendship Day today. A toast to centuries of long standing friendship. MABUHAY!
————-
Chinese and Filipinos have been friends for so long. The Chinese were with us when the Spaniards, the Japanese and when the Americans came in the archipelago. I can honestly say that despite the on going standoff between Manila and Beijing, having read some racist and very insulting comments on this website, I still don’t feel any hatred for the Chinese people. I hope the Chinese feels the same way. I really hope that this issue will be resolved peacefully.
Errol T
We don’t hate the Chinese as a whole. We just strongly disagree with the Chinese views posted here.
JohnX
Victor wrote: “@jOHN X,
IF U.S. DONT PAY OR DONT PAY INTEREST ONLY IN THE LEAST ON TIME AMERICA WILL BE EATING ONLY BANANAS FROM PHILPPINES AND U.S.CURRENCY WILL COLLASPE IMMEDIATELY.PLEASE UNDERSTAND THE WORKINGS OF CAPITALISM”
I am truly sorry that you fail to understand.
The World does not consist of two nations, the USA and CCP.
It consists of many and if the USA didn’t pay its debts to China and had a good enough reason not to do so, then most nations would not truly care.
You make the mistake of believing that China has earned the good will that the US has.
The US is spending earnt collateral, China is spending prospective collateral.
Dont make the mistake of misidentifying the two. Nations will accept more from the USA than they will from China because they have history.
History does have value more than money, maybe something you need to learn.
Chad
Uhmm.. Johnx, China’s currency is pegged to US dollar, and if US currency falls, China is hurt severely on other levels too: a.) Most of China’s FOREX are in dollars; and, b.) US consumption will drop, China’s exports will shrink, but US’ exports will become more competitive, so China’s balance of payment could also deteriorate
VICTOR
WHETHER PEGGED OR NOT ANY DEFAULT BY AMERICA WILL LET ITS CREDIT RATING TO BECOME 0.o MEANS BANKRUPT AND AMERICA WILL BECOME A BANANA REPUBLIC.
JUST LOOK AT PIGS COUNTRIES IN EUROPE TO KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING TO BEING ON A BEGGING BOWL.
SO DONT BE DELUSIONAL AND CHINA HAS THE WHOLE WORLD TO TRADE WITH AND A 3 .5 TRILLION SAVINGS TO RELY ON.
WE R TALLKING OF AMERICA NOT WHETHER OTHER NATIONS CARE OR NOT.
“ACCEPT MORE FROM U.S.”ASK IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN?
AFTER RAPING THE COUNTRY THEY R WITHDRAWING WITH A BLOODIED NOSE.WHAT GOODWILL?
NO MONEY NO TALK.
THE BANANAS WILL ROT SOON?CANNOT KEEP TOO LONG?
Errol T
I find your words uncouth and vulgar. Are you Chinese also? Because the foundation of civiization is courtesy. And from what I’ve seen of you so far, courtesy is the least of your priorities. Why do you call Europeans pigs? Do you intentionally call names on anyone who does not agree with you? Whatever your nationality is, I’m thankful you are not one of us. You are a shame on your people.
JohnX
scdad07 wrote: “I, on my free will. do not want to buy banana, mango, pineapple from Philippines, travel and spend vacation money in Philippines and suggest to give the ‘others’ than Phil the jobs.”
Well, too bad for you then.
I am not a filipino, but I love the Philippines, so just to spite you I will start buying goods from the Philippines instead of China and will make sure my next holiday is booked for there.
Bullying in any form annoys me and I am happy to support the Philippines.
Aguinaldo
JonhX, You are very Right on that. I hope that American and others European Company relocate to Philippines; They can sure that Filipinos won’t pirate their products being manufactured in China.
Cyrus
Try flying with NH(Nippon Airways) they are landing in NAIA 3. NAIA 1 is overcrowded and you will be frustrated with the long lines.
HHop
JohnX,
I am not Filipino either, but I salute you for ditching Chinese poison-laden goods.
scdad07
Bullying – Do I hear you cry bully on the one who has over 170 bases around the world and executes anyone in the ‘Kill list’ at one’s discretion.
Double standard or blind.
scdad07
Why one choosing one’s option is bullying? LOL.
Why can’t India buys as much oil from Iran under her free will? Bully!!!
Errol T
Unless you have orchestrated mass murders, terrorist attacks, and a blatant disregard to collateral damage, then you should have nothing to fear from any drones.
You haven’t been terrorizing anyone? Have you?
scdad07
The title of this article should give Cuba the full credit on standing up to ‘political and economic’ pressures for decades.
Errol T
Indeed, I would agree. But this forum is focused on Asia. There’s sure to be mention of Cuba’s stand in another forum. You can comment there.
Sin Lok
“Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself.” – Confucius
Errol T
Sadly, Confucios’ modern-day descendants are applying the other side of the coin: Do unto others what was done unto you.
China was a victim of imperialism before. Now it wants to be an imperialist itself.
scdad07
Quoting a western writer’s reflection:
“Remember the Golden Rule? “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” It’s not normally regarded as a cardinal rule of foreign policy; in that realm, “an eye for an eye” seems closer to the norm. But lately I’ve been thinking that Americans ought to reflect a bit more on the long-term costs of our willingness to do unto others in ways we would most definitely not want them to do unto us.
This past week, the New York Times has published two important articles on how the Obama administration is using American power in ways that remain poorly understood by most Americans. The first described Obama’s targeted assassination policy against suspected terrorists, and the second describes the U.S. cyber-warfare campaign against Iran. Reasonable people might disagree about the merits of both policies, but what I find troubling is the inevitable secrecy and deceit that is involved. It’s not just that we are trying to fool our adversaries; the problem is that we end up fooling ourselves, too. As I’ve noted before, when our government is doing lots of hostile things in far-flung places around the world and the public doesn’t know about them until long after the fact, then we have no way of understanding why the targets of U.S. power might be angry and hostile. As a result, we will tend to attribute their behavior to other, darker motivations. …”
Errol T
In essence, the US government conducts cyberwarfare but the American public doesn’t know about it. We get the point, OK. How is this relevant to the article above?
Sin Lok
No it’s an Eastern one I believe it’s Chinese! I never mention anything about US why are telling me about them. I am very aware of what they are.
scdad07
This westerner also possesses and honors the same wisdom, imo.
Leonard R.
I hope that behind the scenes at least, the US has stopped feigning neutrality.
What is at stake with these rocks is very important.
If the PRC takes control, the entire western coastline of the archipelago is lost.
And these rocks are only a two or three hour flight from sovereign US territory.
This is conquest by the PRC. It is imperialism. And it is not aimed only at Manila.
It is aimed at all of SEA and it is a dagger aimed at US territory in Guam.
The US should stop pretending to be neutral here and commit to defend Manila.
Manila should also request military assistance in clear, unequivocal language.
I hope that has already happened behind-the-scenes.
nirvana
@Leonard R,
I respectfully disagree on one point. Even if these rocks are 15mn flight from US territory their strategic value are still nill. Simply because they are only rocks.
The strategic value is in the waters. If you can use the rocks to claim sovereignty over the waters then indeed, the rocks would have strategic value. But you can’t. That’s why China keep calling them Huangyan “island”. But this is a blatant lie that is easy to counter.
The US can remain neutral on the sovereignty of the rocks. It can still intervene if Philippines vessels are attacked in their EEZ.
John Chan
@Leonard R,
Guam is an occupied land, it does not belong to the USA, it belongs to RyuKyu Kingdom, another land being occupied by the WWII war criminal Japan.
nirvana
@John Chan,
Guam belonging to the Ryukyu kingdom?
“To err is human”. It’s good to know that you are a human.
Cam
John chan could be a robot programmed but I think he is likely a human implanned a chip and control by Beijing. And as you can see, the program is full of bad codes – ranting, insulting, foul-mouth language,…
Santi Kampilan
John,
You are wrong!The indigenous people are Chamorros like the Filipinos who are Austronesians which currently makes up almost all of island. That was part of The Spanish empire that they sold to the Americans when they lost in 1898. You are probably talking about Okinawa who is part of Ryukyu kingdom.
nirvana
@Cam,
I think you should be a little bit more indulgent. This is the first time John Chan is trying to show that he is human, that he is not here to recite lessons, that he can be inventive.
Come on John, keep trying. Change your heart, look around you…
Oliver
Economics favourable to the Philippines that will be lost from China is incomparable to the loss of Philippine sovereignty. Money can be earned somewhere, somehow, sometime but not what is at stake here for the Filipinos. This will not only rob the Philippines of self respect, and from the world at large, but this will mark its nation’s soul amputated. It is never can be whole. And that, is a war worth fighting for.
Thomas
The Philippines is being a good dog for its Western masters! However, sooner or later the masses will realize that their political masters, who are nothing more than Western slaves and thus have no choice but to do the West’s bidding, are not doing what is best for the Philippines! The Philippino’s may have the choice to vote however they do not control the destiny of their country…as is the case of any Slave State!
nirvana
@Thomas,
You can mock, you can insult, you can provoke, the fact is that the world has seen that you are the ones losing patience.
“Dogs bark, the caravan moves on”
Cam
Sight! another stinky badmouthing chinese wumaoer! The more you insult, the more China is hated. If you can’t say something meanningful, then shut your stinky mouth!
Errol T
We Filipinos live in the real world. With a weak country like ours, the choice is to kowtow to the US or to kowtow to China.
Filiipnos can migrate to the US and be reassured of a good chance to prosper if our migrants work hard. Heck, descendants of those migrants already hold some public offices.
Question is, can we do the same in China?
With options like those, guess w/c side we’re on?
Cyrus
Slaves? Who is the slave let’s see. Filipino’s has the BILL OF RIGHTS, we have the MIRANDA RIGHTS, we have a CONSTITUTION that protect those RIGHTS.
What does the PROC have? Let’s see, CENSORSHIP & NO FREEDOM.
I believe Sun Yat-Sen would be crying right now. THE REPUBLIC OF CHINA in which he fought and risked he’s life have been destroyed by the MAINLAND.
John Chan
@Cyrus,
Every nation has constitution and common laws to protect rights, but not every government will observe its constitution honestly. American is the notorious example of breaching the constitution, e.g. setting up The Fed is breaching the constitution. The Philippines and India are the other examples of constitution breakers, that’s why the majority of their people live in poverty and have never enjoyed the rights stipulated in their constitutions.
The real issue of governance is taking care of the people, not in what name; if a government does not take care of the people, it must be thrown out, be it democracy, communism, monarch, etc. Only lackeys, serfs or cult members are blindingly loyal to names, idols, and titles disregarding to the essence and spirit of morality and benevolence.
KMT was rotten and an American lackey then, so they were thrown out by the Chinese despite it was established by Sun Yat-Sen. On the other hand Filipinos do not care the spirit of democracy, they blindly follow names, that’s why they worship a fat lady who owns 30000 pairs of shoes as long as she and her husband maintained the appearance of democracy.
Cyrus
I find that amusing JC, did you not know that we toppled them in Edsa I and was the inspiration for other peaceful revolutions in those decade?
Who said we do not follow our Constitution? Kindly give examples? Marcos was a dictator and countless Filipino’s died trying to remove him from power. President Aquino’s father was one of those men.
So before you spout nonsense back it up with facts.
Here is a fact, COMMUNISM is about equality of all, how come there are a few ELITE in CHINESE SOCIETY namely the CPP? Is that in lieu with the SPIRIT of COMMUNISM?
John Chan
@Cyrus,
Are you against equality for all? Are you supporting a fat lady owns 30,000 pairs of shoes while a lot of her compatriots own none? It seems you are supporting decadence instead of fairness and honesty.
What is wrong with CPP? Why are you dwelling on the name of capitalism, socialism, and communism, instead of asking the question whether the party is doing something today is better than yesterday?
Are you saying as long as people claim they are democracy and capitalist, they are free to plunge the society into corruption, poverty, crimes, … while they can have a decadent life on the back of the people without moral conscience?
Errol T
Cyrus already told you. Imelda Marcos and her husband and their cronies were peacefully overthrown way back in 1986. That was 26 years ago. I would recommend petitioning your censors to get permission to obtain a history book from overseas. Your records seem way outdated.
Cyrus
@JC you are bloviating again, what you are saying is utter nonsense. Did I say we support Imelda? Where in my comment did you find such comment?
We are a Democracy he who works harder get’s more he who does not work does not get anything at all save government dole outs. We are not China who if a person refuses to work he is forced. We are a DEMOCRACY people has free will to choose where he wants to and when he wants to. It might not be perfect but it is surely better than taking away the free will of people and forcing them against their will. We as a people had always been Semper Fidelis to our Constitution.
ImperiumVita
So your big bad example of the USA “breaching the constitution” is… setting up the Fed? May as well throw the income tax on top of that.
Meanwhile, the June 4th anniversary of the Tienanmen Square massacre of hundreds of young, intelligent university students recently passed.
What kind of Government sends tanks to kill its citizens? Syria and China
Errol T
I still find it hard to believe that they think the CIA orchestrated the Tiananmen massacre. I don’t know if that’s Beijing’s official line, or if it’s the commenters’ own beliefs.
Kimbo Y. Laurel
Well. The Philippines may be small in terms of military and economy compare to People’s Republic of China has greater advantage. Philippines can holds off against PROC when it come to international law and diplomatic relationship. If PROC attacks militarily on the Philippines, the PROC will risk their image as hostile aggressor which many countries will not tolerate. Even if PROC press economic sanction against Philippines, Philippines can be economic resilient through developing relationship with other countries like India and Russia. Why Philippines should be afraid of PROC? Nothing.
comet
I can’t see there is a sign or concrete explanation that the US will not support Phil to their plights instead it became stronger and there would be chance to mend broken ties and flaws tahat happened on the past between of them.
julia
The US will never abandon the South China Sea especially now that vast amount of oil reserve, gas and other energy resources has been discovered. The hell with China trying to own all of the South China Sea just because the word China is associated with it.
The Philippines has a better standing in dealing with the lesser of two evils. She can forget about the lost in its tourism industry with China where most of them are smuglers and drug traffickers anyway. She must also stop the exportation and exploitation of its OFW maid industry to Hong Kong where the latter not only get cheap household services but also get freebies for their children to learn the English language. Other industrialized ASEAN countries like Japan, Korea, Singapore, Malaysia and others must realize that employing Philippine housemaids is a much better bargain for not only getting household services but also being able to teach their children the English at an early age since English is the second language in this country. Philippines’ agricultural and mineral export is much cheaper and has better qualities since this country is rich in natural resources. It’s China’s lost in any way.
In any case, I believe this country will rise again once corruption in the government will cease together with the awakening of it’s citizen to get involve. The country is just rich with it’s natural resources and it cannot be ignored.
juan dela cruz
Amen to that! Julia, you’re right to the point. It was all the Marcos era that we’re suffering right now. He introduced corruption in my country. And the United States had also some blamed for it since it supported it on deaf ears as long as it satisfied its own interest. That was one of the main reason why the Philippine Senate voted for the US bases out of the Philippines during that time, because most of the elected senators at that time where victims of the regime. Plus, it was also a combination of some other things like the end of the cold war and the Mount Pinatubo eruption where the cleaning up Subic and Clark bases was not worth it…, that was why the US just left the Philippines.
However, with the recent emergence of China’s commmunistic idealogies, untrustworthiness, unhumanitarian and bully policies within the South China Sea, I hope everything within the US and the Philippines heartbreaking relationship should be forgotten and the two countries should just move on. Besides, these two countries shared the same ideologies politically and democratically that should never be ignored. God bless the United States of America and my country the Philippines.
HHop
I don’t see any indication the US simply walks away leaving the Philippines cold. Are you part of any back-door negotiation between the US and other players to that effect. I only that the noose is being tightened around China. When you need some air, let us know.
Victor
@Hhop,
Two beggars noose????
cam
Do you have anything to say other than keep bragging about china holding a few US notes? you chinese don’t deserve any respects from any smaller guys in Asia.
VICTOR
@cam,
THE TRUTH HURTS. BIG GUY BORROWS-SMALL GUY BEGS.
R U ON RED PILL OR BLUE PILL???????????????
VICTOR
@cam,
THE TRUTH HURTS.
DEBTOR BORROW MONEY FROM CREDITOR TO FIGHT CREDITOR AND TO DEFEND A BANANA REPUBLIC.
WHAT HAS THE WORLD COME TO?
JohnX
Victor wrote: “THE TRUTH HURTS.
DEBTOR BORROW MONEY FROM CREDITOR TO FIGHT CREDITOR AND TO DEFEND A BANANA REPUBLIC.
WHAT HAS THE WORLD COME TO?”
The Soviet Union owed millions of dollars to the US after WW2 and then walked away without paying the debt.
If China really looks down on the USA like you believe then why should they feel obliged to repay them?
I mean, China is buying a debt from them, not thier soul. I figure you dont really understand capitalism and the fact that you may be Chinese can explain this.
The first lesson is that the loan provider is tied to the debtor and both are in bed together, so dont piss in the bed.
VICTOR
@jOHN X,
IF U.S. DONT PAY OR DONT PAY INTEREST ONLY IN THE LEAST ON TIME AMERICA WILL BE EATING ONLY BANANAS FROM PHILPPINES AND U.S.CURRENCY WILL COLLASPE IMMEDIATELY.PLEASE UNDERSTAND THE WORKINGS OF CAPITALISM
U.S. CANNOT ESCAPE FROM CHINA LEASH UNTIL IT PAYS UP.OTHERWISE RATING WILL BE 0.EVEN JAPAN AND KOREA IS NOW HEDGING FOR THE GREAT DAY AND IS HAVING FREE EXCHANGE WITH THE YUAN IN CURRENCY TO BY PASS U.S.DOLLAR IN DIRECT TRADE.
SO DONT TEACH AMERICA HOW TO SUCK ROTTEN EGGS?
Cyrus
@Victor your spouting mendacious tale’s again. Who said that if the U.S. refused to pay that it’s rating is gonna go down? It is not absolute, so let’s put it this way if war breaks out do you think U.S. would pay China a single cent? Besides, if U.S. Collapse China would be affected. You are a export oriented country, if your major markets collapse U.S. and E.U. then where are you gonna run to?
Besides, how can you call the US as bankrupt? They have weathered the Great Depression how absolutely sure are you that they can’t get away from this one?
Cam
@Victor,
I can see you are angry like hell. Please clean off the foaming on your mouth. What would China do while America pay for the China containment efforts with Chinese money? The only thing we can see is that the Chinese keep buying US treasury notes like crazy. Could you Chinese explain why? If you can do nothing about it, please shut your mouth off and like the Chinese saying, “swallow the bitterness”!
Brad
Defaulting on debt to China would actually help the U.S, a lot. With the announcment that it was for political reasons, the U.S would not take a loss credibility wise and all other debtor nations would know there was a lot more money with which to pay back their debts.
Meanwhile China would be sitting on their little stool with empty pockets looking quite silly that their entire strategy for the last 50 years was based on an IOU.
Knowing that they are not getting their money back, Chinese finacial institutions would beging to collapse, effecting other areas that those banks loan money to, such as the Chinese military. Given the dried up finacial system in China, China would have no means with which to “enforce” the debt, leaving China poor and powerless once again.
THAT is why China plays nice with the U.S.
scdad07
Tourism – 243 thousand visitors from China in 2011 spending over $100 per day, on average of 5 days, would be US$121.5 million;
Banana and pineapple – US$ 275 million;
Hong Kong OFW maids – Official Phil website quoted 120 thousand but it could be 160 thousand. Wages, room & board, etc. should be approximately US$600/month.
Replacing these laborers from other sources could be done within a year.
That would be US$864 – 1,152 million.
That added up to US$1.260 – 1.548 billion.
In a couple of days, Obama and Hillary will order Tim to print a couple more billion for Aquino to take home.
victor
@sedado,
Stop revealing the truth please.
nirvana
Impressive portfolio of “soft power” threats indeed. Add to this the millions of Philippinos with Chinese ancestors (including the current President).
So, why all these bellicose vociferous noise in China media?
scdad07
What ‘bellicose vociferous noise in China media’?
Can you provide links.
nirvana
@scdad07
Perhaps you are so busy on this site that you do not read Xinhua, Global Times and the PLA daily.
scdad07
I posted my comment on GlobalTimes the stats regarding Tourism, Fruits and OFW in Hong Kong.
I have not read any editorials or articles from suggesting Chinese gov’t to threaten other countries with sanctions if they visit, buy products or hire maids from Philippines.
John Chan
Hong Kong OFW maids is more likely 200K-300K, in the weekends you would thought there are OFW maids occupying movements going on, all public spaces are taken up by them, no locals are allowed.
cam
@scdado7,
don’t you see this is a dirty imtimidating pressure on a small country? Where is the pride of a country boasting of 5k years of civilization?
scdad07
Sent a war ship to arrest unarmed fishermen and tried to fire the canon?
Aquino and del Rosario should have thought about the consequences.
What’s wrong about NOT eating your fruits, NOT going to visit your places and casinos and NOT hiring your maids (and give others the employment in Hong Kong)?
Errol T
What’s wrong with sending a CUTTER to arrest poachers? NOTHING. do you complain that policemen who arrest offenders have weapons? Besides, the BRP Gregorio del Pilar hardly counts as a WARSHIP. It used to be a COAST GUARD vessel! Since it happens to be the most advanced we have, it was drafted as a Navy flagship.
And shoot civilian?! Maybe Chinese like you can be as aggressive as you like to weaker enemies but we Filipinos have more common sense than that.
And you threaten us with sanctions? I guess you missed the rejoinder Aquino had. When China started stopping our banana exports, Aquino advised our exporters to look for alternative markets. If you don’t like our bananas, no loss for us. We’ll look for someone else who does.
And by all means, send our OFW’s home. God knows their families miss them terribly. They could use the chance to be reunited. Most likely they’ll just go elsewhere to work afterwards. Preferably a country that’s a better world citizen than where they used to be.
Cam
It is not about either eating fruit or not. It is about bullying. It is about mixing economic with politics. And this is what Beijing does it best. Remember the earth rare export cutting to Japan, anyone? This dirty up-handed tactic shouldn’t be used by a country boasting of a “peaceful rise”. If you are a self-esteem Chinese, you would be probably ashamed of this “Chinese characteristics”.
scdad07
Aren’t you holding on US’ leg without commenting her ‘bully behavior that no one in this freaking world can do business with Iran’ on unproven charge of ‘nuclear weapon’.
I, on my free will. do not want to buy banana, mango, pineapple from Philippines, travel and spend vacation money in Philippines and suggest to give the ‘others’ than Phil the jobs.
Hope the ‘others’ welcome the opportunity.
Errol T
I don’t give a fig as to what’s going on in Iran coz I’ve got an immediate concern that’s closer to home. Literally. You can bask in you country’s strength since you’re on the Asian mainland. I’m sitting closer to the flashpoint compared to you. So please forgive me if I seem to disregard the world’s affairs for now. I was apolitical until this became personal.
I’m not an ultranationalist like you. I acknowledge that America could act better, but that doesn’t change the fact that China is bullying my country. So quit justifying your country’s actions by pointing out the wrongdoings of others. We are talking about you, your country, and your country’s actions. If you wish to criticize America, go ahead. Unlike China, America gives you the right to speak out your opinion. But do it elsewhere. The article is about the Philippines standing up to China. And that’s what the comments should be about. Mention America, mention others,but keep them in the periphery.
As to the quotation marks you gave, ‘others’? Are you so egotistical that no other countries exist? Are you implying they are imaginary? Last I checked, we export fruits to other non-tropical countries. We can look for more. And we don’t give a fig if you don’t like our fruits. But then again, that’s something you can relate to, since you don’t give a fig to what you country is doing, do you?
Cyrus
Don’t Bloviate, who said that they are threatening to fire a cannon? They are only making an arrest sanctioned by INTERNATIONAL LAW against those CHINESE POACHERS.
I see CHINA has no regard for INTERNATIONAL LAW per the PROTECTION OF ENDANGERED SPECIES.
nirvana
@scdad07,
I support you !!
When your media show how “outraged” people are, when your government “has run out of patience”, when the PLA declares it will “make no compromise on issues concerning its core interests”, people like scdad07 show what China is up to: stop eating bananas and mangos.
Big relief; the world is saved. Everybody applause scdad07 please.
scdad07
Please enjoy banana, pineapple, mango for dinner, then visit Philippines and petition some to work in your household.
Errol T
Thanks, but no thanks. Personally I don’t like any fruits since I’m more of a meat person. But I wouldn’t begrudge others who would do so, since they like it and it’s a healthy option.
ACT
one has to wonder about this one. some of the information the author uses is as much as 2 weeks old…..warmongering is ill advised when the United States could very well break all its vows and leave the Philippines out in the proverbial cold…
Oro Invictus
@ACT
Warmongering? I hardly think the author is advocating any sort of martial action, rather he is simply suggesting the Philippines continue to offset the economic and military advantages the PRC wields by seeking assistance from others, which is precisely what it has been doing. Remember, deterrence and warmongering are two very separate things; anyone associated with the PRC will be much less likely to engage in hostilities if they risk American and/or ASEAN intervention while, likewise, such assistance assures that the Philippines will not become frustrated that it is not being heard by the PRC’s domineering and do something in the fit of the moment it will regret later.
Oro Invictus
Ah, quick update, the US is reasserting its commitment to its MDT with the Philippines, the consequences of which in relation to the Scarborough Shoal incident I leave to those reading this to decide:
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1206294/1/.html
ACT
@ Oro
thank you for your insight and correction. what’s stunning is that the issue has been going on for so long; one would have thought that both sides would have agreed to some sort of cooperative use treaty by now…. the ultimate question is, however, are the resources buried underneath the seabed (and within the waters themselves) really worth the cost of any potential conflict?
Oro Invictus
@ACT
No, such resources aren’t worth the risk, and in a perfect world both sides would realize this and seek more rational means to pursue their claims; but, of course, this is not a perfect world, it is one in which things like “patriotism” and “nationalism” are lauded, things which inherently place allegiance to an immaterial entity above the happiness and wellbeing of our fellow human beings. As such, knowing that the actors will continue to behave in such a way, we must instead examine the consequences of their actions and consider what would be the best outcome. In this case, should the PRC get its way and claim the Shoal despite (as the article notes) the utter lack of legal basis for its claim, it will fuel resentment and fear amongst the nations of the SCS and East/Southeast Asia (not to mention how the Philippines would respond, as alluded to be my previous statement about “rash actions”), triggering military build-ups, shoring up nationalistic and bigoted sentiments on all sides, and making the region primed for utter chaos which would invariably destroy countless lives and livelihoods. In the face of such potential catastrophe, the risks involved by the Philippines seeking to bolster its deterrence capabilities (that being that if it goes too far, it might cause the PRC to overreact and become MORE aggressive rather than less) seem the lesser evil by far in this scenario, does it not?
scdad07
You should count the casualties of US never ending war searching for enemies since WW2.
Before WW2, British muddied the territorial clarification around the globe and US took the same strategy immediately after WW2.
JohnX
scdad07 wrote: “Before WW2, British muddied the territorial clarification around the globe and US took the same strategy immediately after WW2.”
I find this comment amusing.
The Chinese are expert at muddying the waters and your posts are a good example of the practice.
Enough truth to be palatable, but not enough to be true.
Though, I guess thats the reality for Chinese supporters.
Oro Invictus
@scdad07
Alleging the US (and, earlier, Britain) sought to foment discord in maritime regions for personal gain (assuming that’s what you were trying to say, your syntax lacks structuring such as to provide a clear point to your post) is completely irrelevant to this situation; it is not the US which has prevented clarification of regional claims by refusing to submit its claims to the international community for judgment in the SCS (i.e. basic rules for fair negotiations and decision-making, jury by peers and whatnot) nor does any malfeasance, perceived or otherwise, by the US (or any other nation) make it right for the PRC to engage in similar activities.
scdad07
Take a couple of examples:
The McMahon Line was part of the 1914 Simla Convention between British India and Tibet, an agreement rejected by China. Thus, led to the 1962 sino-Indian war.
On Diaoyutai Islands, the transfer of administration from US to Japan in 1971, note the word ‘administration’, China and Taiwan have disputed Japan’s claim of ownership.
Oro Invictus
@scdad07
You certainly seem to be having great difficulty grasping the concept of “irrelevancy”; perhaps you would better comprehend it if I were to copy-and-paste a rather crass quote of yours (which, while it failed to apply to the situation at the time, fits quite handily here, aside from the errors in syntax):
“Words………,Meaning….nothing.”
Ben Moles
On April 10th, Hilary Clinton gave a speech on US strategy in the Asia-Pacific underlining commitment to allies, and security in the South China Sea, stating that 1-1 resolution of disputes being pursued by China was not the way ahead. The current standoff could be attributed to Filipino misinterpretation of the US Pivot to Asia and adventurism that its lack in clarity has induced.
There are some in the Philippines who insist that this is actually a problem of the government’s own making, in particular that of former President Gloria Arroyo who in 2009, in submission to UNCLOS’ baseline requirement- failed to include the Scarborough Shoal and Spratly Islands in the Philippines claim.
The Philippines hold the diplomatic advantage in face of great military asymmetry, however, and as you point to- that of time. China will face increasing public expectation of a resolution, in China’s favour, as will the Philippines. However, with increasing time will come increasing domestic expectation that China should use its strength advantage; the Philippines will not have this problem as the disparity between the militaries of each is publically recognised.
The Chinese leadership will be cautious of militarising the situation, at present the vessels they have sent to the area have been civilian, the problem with sending military vessels to the region is that sending them not only escalates the situation but sends the message that they are prepared to use them, if they do and don’t, credibility would be damaged. That being said, an accidental physical provocation, such as a collision initiated by a Philippine vessel (Government controlled or not) could be all the reason China needs to demonstrate it is more than a paper dragon.
Towards a resolution: Short term: Both parties should agree a moratorium on fishing within the disputed area and follow a quid pro quo reduction in civilian vessels at the Scarborough Shoal. The Philippines could acknowledge fault for the standoff in not claiming the islands under its 2009 UNCLOS baseline claim, allowing them to withdraw first in exchange for China recognising they now wish to include them- China can recognise the claim without supporting it- like many states recognise the Chinese position that Taiwan is part of China. Long term: The US must ratify the Law of the Sea Convention and China needs to define exactly what it claims in the South China Sea.
I have recently published a post that questions the US Pivot to Asia and US alliances in the region here: http://internationalsecuritydiscipulus.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/the-emerging-pivot-to-asia-strategy-a-contributary-order-that-wont-materialise/
J.H
Hi Ben,
I agree with you on the fact that the previous admin is to be blamed, although partly. However, I think to many people the US Pivot is a project in progress, and the Filipino have been trying hard to shape it in a way that compensates for the country's flagrant deterrence gap, while I am sure Americans are also trying to test and see how far they can deepen and consolidate their strategic depth in the region. Things are in flux now and many variables – including China's perceptions and actions – are fueling developments on the ground.
BM
I agree, only one thing remains constant and that is that change will prevail, and boy- the times they are a changing!
I think Michael Wesley painted an interesting picture last year, a world of rivalrous interdependence and competitive cooperation http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/news/the-end-of-the-luxury-of-distance/story-fn8ex0p1-1226053461761; the focus is now sharpening on what back then looked like quite an abstract picture.
The third shift is the increasing blurring of security and prosperity interests. The world we’ve become used to was one in which countries traded and invested primarily with their allies or friendly countries, and not their rivals. Now Australia joins Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and a range of other countries that have the United States as their major security partner and its great rival China as their major economic partner. Even the two great competitors, China and America, are deeply economically dependent on each other. This is a world of agonizing choices – a world of rivalrous interdependence.
Shift four follows from shift three. A world of rivalrous interdependence is not one in which matters can be decided by momentous confrontations. It will be a world in which each country has to balance a range of different interests and offsetting partnerships. The incentive for powerful countries will be to attract the support of as many smaller countries as possible, and to prevent their rivals from gaining too many supporters. Smaller countries will probably gain more from playing the field than from signing up with one or other of the great powers. This will be a world of endless manoeuvre – a world of competitive cooperation.
J.H
Yet, Ben… prior to the world war I, we had a similar level of interdependence among the Western powers who eventually ended up at total warfare- in fact Germany and England had a higher level of mutual economic interlocking.
Have we learned our lessons?