With last year’s diplomatic “pivot” to the Pacific now seemingly in full swing, the United States declared the next phase of its grand shift into the Asia-Pacific.
President Barack Obama, during the first press conference to be held by a U.S. president at the Pentagon, detailed America’s shift to a leaner and more cost efficient U.S. military. Such a shift, with exact details to be released in the coming defense budget, will cut U.S. combat troop numbers while investing in unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV’s) and cyber-war technology. Interestingly, it has also prompted talk that the U.S. is abandoning its policy of being able to fight two ground wars simultaneously.
“The tide of war is receding,” President Obama declared, “but the question that this strategy answers is what kind of military we will need after the long wars of the last decade are over.”
U.S. officials also explained where military forces would soon focus their efforts, namely the Middle East and the Asia-Pacific. Specifically, the president mentioned in a written statement, “operating in anti-access environments,” a veiled reference to Iran and China.
China was quick to respond to the change in strategy, which sees U.S. forces ending their involvement in Iraq and then Afghanistan and shifting to the Pacific Rim – and China’s backyard.
In an editorial directed at recent U.S. moves, the official Xinhua News Agency said: “While boosting its military presence in the Asia-Pacific, the United States should abstain from flexing its muscles, as this won’t help solve regional disputes.”
"The United States should learn from its past painful experiences and play a constructive role in the Asia-Pacific instead of recklessly practicing militarism. After all, might does not always make right,” it concluded.
In reality, U.S. planners have been preparing a shift to the Asia-Pacific for some time now. As The Diplomat defense analyst James Holmes pointed out in a recent interview with “The Takeaway,” for example, the United States had declared in its 2007 maritime policy that “(The U.S.) should remain number one in both the Pacific and Indian Ocean regions.” The U.S. military has already moved critical nuclear attack submarines, Aegis missile defense platforms, and naval surface combatants to bases in Guam and Japan. And there’s also widespread talk of the implementation of the much-discussed “AirSea Battle Concept,” which presumably is aimed at defeating an opponent’s anti-access weaponry.
Much of the United States strategy in the Pacific is based on classic conventional military deterrence. U.S. diplomats have a clear stratagey of wishing to engage China and develop close ties to lesson tensions. However, as the situation in the South China Sea remains fluid, and with the status of Taiwan still unresolved even as China’s military grows ever capable of forcing the issue, U.S. planners are being careful to hedge their bets. Contingency planning in this case is surely a good thing.
As Holmes noted, military deterrence isn’t a new concept. Indeed, he was right to note in response to a question on whether the U.S. is trying to contain China that President Theodore Roosevelt once argued that “maintaining a dominant maritime power was the way to dissuade conflict.”
The United States clearly has no interest in abandoning its growing economic or strategic interests in the Asia-Pacific. But at the same time, neither the United States nor China have much to gain by extended bouts of military brinksmanship, talk of containing one another or strategic posturing that could spark a crisis. The United States has long made clear its intentions in the region, meaning that the announcements over the military details underpinning its strategy should be seen largely as a natural extension of its existing posture.
Of course, this is complicated by China’s developing anti-ship missiles with extended ranges, advanced cruise missiles, advanced naval capabilities and a military strategy of anti-access. But the United States has long advanced the view that freedom of navigation is essential for the region’s prosperity – the latest announcements are therefore only in part about China.
China’s fast growing economy and increased military capabilities will undoubtedly give it greater influence in the region even as the U.S. pivots towards the Pacific. U.S. policymakers will likely hope then that China’s policymakers accept that they have guaranteed Beijing a seat at the top table of Asia-Pacific affairs and won’t feel threatened by a new containment strategy that doesn’t really exist.
Healthy competition is fine, but politically charged rumblings could prove extremely unhelpful in easing tensions in a sometimes unpredictable part of the world.
Harry Kazianis is assistant editor of The Diplomat. You can follow him on Twitter: @HarryKazianis

DownRedChina
Big bully China wants US not to deter her. I have a proposal.
1) Evict Chinese from all islands in SCS.
2) Every country keep its current EEZ.
3) The water doesn’t belong to any country. Divide equally to Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, Brunei and Indonesia.
4) Invite Exxon/BP/Shell etc to explore the oil.
5) Understood China wanted SCS simply for its oil. China can buy the oil with the same price it buys from middle east. China will save tons of money from shipping.
This proposal is fair for everyone.
davida
Mishmael, well said. it always baffles me that usa uses the democracy and human rights issue to push their agenda. but no matter how they spin this, the fact is clearer than the day, which is they will maintain and sustain their supremacy at any cost. back in 1980s, when japan was poised to overtake usa on economic front, that sparked the furious debate in us and ronald reagan forced japan to sign the plaza accord that virtually stipulated that japan could nt develop their economy without us blessings.
now, the context is the same with the theme being slightly altered- stopping the communist china from rising. they regard giving china a spot on the table with us playing the permenant host as justified and fair. while japan and australia feature as choir boys on the sideline cheering us on, only fools would misread the true intent behind recent us maneuverings and posturings.
Liang1a
Obviously China should not prohibit any country in the world from doing business anywhere in the world including Asia. If the US wishes to do business in Asia then it should be allowed to do so as long as it does not do anything to harm China’s national interest. But therein lies the rub. The US has been harming the national interests of China in Asia for close to 200 years. It had instigated large scale slaughter of ethnic Chinese all around Asia. It had tried to contain China by creating puppet regimes all around its periphery. Even now America’s strategy is to contain China. If there is any talk about changing from “containment” to “deterrence” it is nothing more than semantics. America still wants to put China in a box and control it in every way.
This American desire to contain China is rooted in hundreds of years of hatred and suspicion. From the beginning America had hated the Chinese. Below is an excerpt from a book by Elmer C. Sandmeyer, “The Anti-Chinese Movement in California” quoting an article from the Post published in March 19, 1879.
“But only let the general government release our people from federal obligations, and with our own state laws and local enactments we will free ourselves from the leprous evil, or, failing in that, with the same right arms that founded this western empire, will prove to the world that the imperial Saxon race, though but a million strong, can maintain its claim even against four hundred millions serfs to possess and forever hold untrammeled the fair continent of America…..The silence of the grave would be all that would tell of the Chinaman’s existence here.”
Post, March 19, 1879
From this article, hatred poured forth with deadly poison. And even though this was more than 100 years ago and certainly things have changed, yet the underlying suspicion and antipathy are still just beneath the surface and continue to motivate America’s foreign policies with respect to China. Therefore, the Chinese people should not be lulled into complacency believing that America now has undergone a fundamental change of heart and accept China as equal human beings.
If America now is talking about a shift in strategy from containment to deterrence, it is because it has been compelled by evolving circumstances. That is to say, China is now much stronger while America is weaker. If America has abandoned containment policy it is because it is no longer strong enough to contain China and not because it has fallen in love with it.
America talks about “guaranteeing” China a “seat at the top table of Asia-Pacific affairs.” Why should China need America’s guarantee for such a seat? Who is America to offer China such a seat? Is America the undisputed owner of Asia-Pacific that it can make guarantees of seats at any table or withhold them from China? If China can only sit at the table of Asia-Pacific by the generosity of America then obviously China must obey America for fear of losing it through incurring the displeasure of America. That would not make China’s position in Asia-Pacific region very secure. Or put in another way, it would make America the sole controller of Asia-Pacific and putting China is a subservient role of catering to the pleasure of America. Therefore, any Chinese with any sense of dignity and nobility would reject this guarantee as an insult.
As I’ve made clear repeatedly, China has the potential of developing an economy equivalent to $100 trillion within 30 years. And combined with the most advanced indigenous technologies China would be able to become more than 5 times richer and more militarily powerful than America. Therefore, China does not need any guarantees from America for a seat at any Asian-Pacific table. It is for China to decide whether America deserves to have such a seat. As I said at the beginning of this post, China should not prohibit any country from doing business in Asia. But if America continued to treat China as an implacable enemy then China will have no choice but to ultimately exclude it from Asia-Pacific region. And with economic and military power 5 times or more stronger than the US, it can obviously do it easily.
In the end, I hope America would come to its senses and bring to a conclusion of its historical hatred of China and the Chinese. Continued hostility will not benefit anybody. In the long term it will only hurt America. China had been at its historical nadir over the last 200 years. But it has now risen. And even though its rise so far is only minimal yet it is already strong enough to protect China and deny its neighboring region to America. In the coming 30 years it could grow 10 times stronger. In the meantime America has peaked and cannot grow much stronger anymore. Therefore, it makes sense for America to reconcile itself to the new reality and make peace with its new position in the world.
What America can do is to slap down its client states such as Japan, Philippines and Vietnam and tell them to get out of China’s sovereign territories in the E. China Sea and S. China Sea. This will immediately bring peace in the E. and S. E. Asian regions and gives credibility to America’s statements of peaceful intents. Then with peace returning, all can give first priority to developing the economies of the regions. And only with peace and robust economies in the regions can America gain any meaningful benefits.
In the final analysis, the choices in front of America are military dominance or economic benefit. I hope it will make the right choice. In any event China will continue to grow militarily based on its economic and technological advancement. And America will only end by either dealing itself in or out of Asia-Pacific.
Lars
@Liang1a,
Dream on, dream on, old man…
You said:
“What America can do is to slap down its client states such as Japan, Philippines and Vietnam and tell them to get out of China’s sovereign territories in the E. China Sea and S. China Sea…”
I believe most people in Sweden, including the US would say, “China, this is 21st Century. You cannot use the gun boat policy and lawlessness actions anymore”.
Cutting cables from Vietnamese ships within their EEZ and invaded the Philippines’ islands are definitely abnormal behaviours. Stealing IP from other countries are sickening business attitudes. Making poisonous foods and products are murderous. If you are so proud of China for all of these ugly and horrible stuff, then you have no moral at all.
Fu Man-chu
Oh yeah? Americans can kill millions of Iraqis, Afhanis, Vietnamese, Japanese, Filipinos, etc? Personally, the double standards espoused by you “lars”, tells me the only way to bring down this hypocritical Washington is through force. Reason does not sell. If there should come such a point in time, I hope China and Russia make a preemptive nuclear attack on America and kill millions of you Americans, especially ones like you. This is only the language bullies like you understand .. when you get hurt. You pay for the sins of your father – in this case, Washington. But rest assure, there will be little sympathy, considering the arrogance exhibited by many of you American sock-puppets.
Matt
So you come on to a US website and tell Americans you want to kill us. Well that will lead to what you idiot? Maybe we will decide to kill you before you have a chance to do what you just said you will? You are an idiot. I imagine stupid Chinese PLA might agree with you on some stupid level and maybe that’s why we have “returned to the Pacific”…China does not have a prayer.
A war with China will resemble the Turkey Shoot with Japan. We don’t want war but we will slice and dice very quickly if you wish to know. I love turkey meat really.
John Chan
@Matt,
Can’t you take a strong word from Fu Man-chu without going berserk? Is that only people like you with the editor of the Diplomat’s backing can use abusive and derogative words, but others are not allow to rebuke such ranting strongly?
If you afraid of dying, then you should ask the question why the USA and its lackeys are pumping out toxic war chant non-stop? War can not be won by hot air, it needs courage and sacrifice of soldiers to earn it; as shown in the Korean War, American retreated rather very quickly instead of slice and dice Turkeys in the X’mas.
DownRedChina
@John Chan:
It’s OK for you for Chinese to talk tough and you can’t take it when American do the same thing. You’re insane.
It’s time American abandon carrot and use stick policy against China. I believe American have tools to monitor the languages like Fu Man-chu and have matching actions.
DownRedChina
@Liang1a:
Why don’t you pro CCP show some graceful. If it wasn’t the American beat Japan in WW2, China would still be Japanese slaves. The Russia would nuke China 1969. US let China in WTO and pouring money into China. You need to understand who really bring China out of stone age and act wisely.
South China Sea is not mainland China in which china can willy nilly claim territories belonging to the Southeast Asian People. These are Southeast Asian territorial waters, not mainland china. China must act responsibly and let go of its land grabbing ambition to grab territories in areas that lies in Southeast Asian territorial waters. China has no business claiming territories belonging to the Southeast Asian people. Law-abiding United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) 1982 which China ratified.
John Chan
@DownRedChina,
Without China, Japanese would kill half million American more before they could reach Japan’s shore in WW2. Fascist Japan was at the beginning of collapse when the American got involved in China.
On the other hand Vietnam and Philippines would still under Japanese occupation, because they were lackey in nature, both Vietnamese and Filipino probably were still serving the Fascist happily.
Don’t be silly about USSR’s nuke wild-goose chase story, unless you believe USA paid USSR tons of gold for them to pull the missiles out of Cuba.
WTO and UN are international institutions; none of them is American sock-puppets.
Vietnamese and Filipinos are the squatters on the China’ islands in the SCS, they can either leave by themselves, or to be evicted by sheriff.
DownRedChina
@John Chan
“Without China, Japanese would kill half million American more before they could reach Japan’s shore in WW2. Fascist Japan was at the beginning of collapse when the American got involved in China.”
Not true. Since American joined the war, the Japan forces were fully focus on American forces. The Japan knew they could take care Chinese at any time once they defeated the American. American beat the Japan badly across the Pacific.
“On the other hand Vietnam and Philippines would still under Japanese occupation, because they were lackey in nature, both Vietnamese and Filipino probably were still serving the Fascist happily.”
The American did all the hard work.
“Don’t be silly about USSR’s nuke wild-goose chase story, unless you believe USA paid USSR tons of gold for them to pull the missiles out of Cuba.” It’s a fact Nixon warmed Russia not to nuke China. You’d better provide facts about US paid USSR tons of gold.
“WTO and UN are international institutions; none of them is American sock-puppets.”
If Clinton did want China in, China couldn’t get in. PERIOD.
“Vietnamese and Filipinos are the squatters on the China’ islands in the SCS, they can either leave by themselves, or to be evicted by sheriff.”
Can you explicit and pinpoint where in the disputed waters did the Vietnamese and Philippines are the squatters on the China’ islands in the SCS?
John Chan
@DownRedChina,
American suffered terribly at the beginning of WWII, Douglas MacArthur had to snake out by himself in the night, shame on him leaving behind hundreds of thousands of GIs to face death march. Without China Japanese could put another million troops in the Pacific islands to kill the Americans.
If your USSR nuke China wild-goose chase story is fact, so is the story of USA paying USSR tons of gold to pull their missiles out of Cuba.
Clinton is neither an employee nor an official of WTO; he had no say in the decisions made by the WTO. WTO is an international institution; its decisions are made by its members through discussion and voting.
All Vietnamese and Filipinos currently occupying the islands inside the nine-dotted line in the SCS are squatters, they need to be evicted.
DownRedChina
@John Chan:
“All Vietnamese and Filipinos currently occupying the islands inside the nine-dotted line in the SCS are squatters, they need to be evicted.”
I agree with you if they are squatters, they need to be evicted. Before we evict them, we need good reasons why we evict them. Agree? Can you provide the coordinates of 9-dotted line? How far are the islands from Phillipine’s EEZ or Vietnam’s EEZ? And how far are the islands from China’s EEZ?
Liang1a
DownRedChina wrote:
January 9, 2012 at 3:25 pm
@Liang1a:
Why don’t you pro CCP show some graceful. If it wasn’t the American beat Japan in WW2, China would still be Japanese slaves. The Russia would nuke China 1969. US let China in WTO and pouring money into China. You need to understand who really bring China out of stone age and act wisely.
South China Sea is not mainland China in which china can willy nilly claim territories belonging to the Southeast Asian People. These are Southeast Asian territorial waters, not mainland china. China must act responsibly and let go of its land grabbing ambition to grab territories in areas that lies in Southeast Asian territorial waters. China has no business claiming territories belonging to the Southeast Asian people. Law-abiding United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) 1982 which China ratified.
——————————–
Liang’s response:
Japan’s invasion of China was already running out of steam by 1944. Japan had repeatedly tried to attack Chung King where ROC had its wartime capital. Japanese Imperial Army failed to take Chang Sha 3 times in 1939, 1941 and 1942 as a prelude to attacking Chung King but failed with catastrophic losses. It succeeded in its 4th attempt in 1944 but with 360,000 troops (not counting air and river troops) against China’s 300,000 troops. Japan suffered some 25,000 casualties. After the 4th battle of Chang Sha Japanese army was no longer able to function effectively and it never mounted any attack on Chung King. All evidence showed that the Chinese troops were growing stronger and more effective against the Japanese in spite of the overwhelming advantages of the Japanese in weapons and in time would have defeated the Japanese army. Even in Burma the Amereicans were no match for the Japanese. The vaunted Merrill’s Marauders got themselves trapped by the Japanese and were on the point of being wiped out when the Chinese came to their rescue. The truth is American troops were no match for the Japanese and would have lost had not the Chinese repeatedly defeated the Japanese army and inflicting catastrophic losses on them. Therefore, it was China who helped the US and not the other way around. The US got bombed in Pearl Harbour and had no choice but to enter the war. Therefore, the US did not help China but only itself.
As to USSR nuking China, nobody knows for sure what the situation really was. So it is pointless to speculate.
As to WTO, I’ve always said that China must get out of the WTO immediately and ban all FDI. It was a dark day in the Chinese history when the Dengists dragged China into the WTO and allowed the Japanese and assorted foreigners to invade China economically.
S. China Sea is China’s sovereign territories. There is no need to argue about it. All China needs to do is send in its gun boats and wipe the invaders out of there. It is only the wrong policies of Hu and Wen that have prolonged this shameful agony which has disgraced China in the eyes of the world. Hopefully, the next rulers of China will be more patriotic and forceful.
DownRedChina
Liang1a: “S. China Sea is China’s sovereign territories. ”
Can you pinpoint me the coordinates of 9 dotted lines? Since when 9 dotted line submitted to UN?
I agree with you Hu and Wen so weak. Why don’t Chinese people hang them to death?
Bring Maoist back to China so China can be prosperous lol.
Liang1a
DownRedChina wrote:
January 10, 2012 at 1:27 am
Liang1a: “S. China Sea is China’s sovereign territories. ”
Can you pinpoint me the coordinates of 9 dotted lines? Since when 9 dotted line submitted to UN?
I agree with you Hu and Wen so weak. Why don’t Chinese people hang them to death?
Bring Maoist back to China so China can be prosperous lol.
———————–
Liang’s response:
Are you blind? Can’t you see the lines on the map?
Obviously Mao has been dead for decades. But if you can bring him back then it is OK with me. Are you sure you want him back? You want to repeat Korea in S. China Sea? And don’t be too cocksure about Mao’s inability to rapidly advance China’s economy. With his forceful discipline to keep the Chinese government clean and my ideas on how to implement an independent domestic economy rapidly, China will surge to its ultra-superpower status within 30 years. So by all means, if you can somehow bring him back, I’d appreciate it very much!
ashleyhk
Welcome Mao back??
Welcome to the deliberate killings of tens of millions of Chinese people, again?
DownRedChina
@Liang1a: Thank you very much for your clarifications regarding Maoist. That’s why USA comes to Asia!
I need you to specify the coordinates of your 9-dotted line. By convention the map is defined by well defined coordinates. You also need to tell me when China first submitted 9-dotted line map to UN.
Mike
China has done more harm to itself than the Americans could ever hope to do via force.
Chinas agressive stance on the south china sea and its bully tactics have pushed most of Asia into the US camp. It was only a few years ago that Asia looked forward to a peaceful rise of China, it had started to believe the peaceful rise speak comming from chinese leaders. Instead what Asia got was another bully who intends to assert its claims no matter the cost. Laying claim to the entire souther china sea even though many other countries have stronger claims to part of it. China cannot claim the entire sea and the world will never allow this to happen. China if it wanted to be true to its words would open a UN multinational summit with the other parties of the south china sea and settle the borders in a manner which is fair to all. No China only agrees to bilateral talks which each nation seperately so its can bully each nation to its own interests. Any surpise than they turned to the US for help.
Looking back wether it was intended or not, the US gave china a length of rope and said be a regional power, they took and at the 1st challenge hanged themselves. It is only Chinas agressive stance towards its smaller neighbours that has help bring the US back into this region, not that they ever left but it provided the political ammunition to do so with world wide coverage.
So China now faces not only the US which is far more powerful than China militarily and will be for decades to come. It faces the US, Japan, South Korea, Tawain, Vietnam, Malyasia, Phillipines, Indonessia, Australia, India, Singapore, Thailand all firmly in the US camp and moving ever closer to Washington. Chinas agressive stance has actualy lead to its own containment. If china has continued its peaceful rise, and negioated fairly a settlement to its claims, it could have moved many of these nations over time into Chinas influence.
I often thought in the past that Chinas leaders played the long game, but the last 2 years have showed how short sigted they have become. I belive the US economic problems in recent years gave China a false sense of superiority and they over played there hand, in short the US called Chinas bluff.
China is still only 1/3 the size of the US economy, The US spends on defence equal to the next 10 biggest nations. It is the only nation in the world that can project most of its power overseas while remaining secure at home. China will never become a global superpower due to geography, its faces strong enemies on all sides. China cannot focus all its power against one enemy in fear of another taking advantage. In any future war against the US and its allies not only would China be greatly outnumbered and outgunned, but it would not be able to deploy its full forces to face that threat.
Much like Germany in the 20th Century, China faces the problem of a war on multiple fronts. The Germans had east and west europe, plus africa. China would have east asis vs the US, Japan, south china vs Tawain, Vietnam and other ASEAN nations. To the East India is a large threat, to the North Russia. Across nearly all directions the US could attack from most points. How can China focus its forces, it cannot unless it takes out its strong rivals one by one.
For China to become a superpower it must become Asia strongest power and dominate the others, this means it must defeat India or humilate it in a brief but sharp war. It needs to deal with Russia to its north and claim back many of the lands Russia took from China in previous centuries. China with control over the vast lands of Siberia and its resources would be an almost unstopable power in the 21st century. Than most of Asia would follow Chinas lead.
Ofcourse China would need to do this without provoking a war with the US. Im sure the US would take any chance it could get to bring China down a peg or two.
Im sure the US political system would survie a war would china, could the CCP survie a war it lost to the US, India, Japan or any other powers. I dont think so.
John Chan
@Mike,
Actually you are totally wrong, Asian nations are practical; they face one bully, the USA, who will whack them without hesitation, and a peaceful nation, China, would do no harm to them. Of course they are coerced into showing obedience to the bully. If China can show them the right way to live peacefully together, they will kick the bully out at all cost, because nobody wants to live in fear under the bully of the predatory imperialist; liberty and equality are the basic desire of all human beings.
It is financially ignorant to gauge a nation’s economic size based on exchange rate. Anyhow few more years, even based on the exchange rate, China’s economy will be larger than the USA’s because USA is walking the economy path of Japan in the last twenty years, and their politicians are too busy infighting for their own interests instead of recovering USA’s economy.
China is a peaceful nation and only interested in improving the living standard of its people. Only the predatory imperialist Westpac has been waging war non-stop at all kind specious excuses.
If USA starts a war, it will be defeated; UK, France, Spain, Russia, American natives, etc. all want to break the USA up to reclaim their lands back.
Terry Chong
To Asian Pacific nations, China is just a fat, ugly faced bullying nation. Just looking at its aggressive behaviours in the past few years toward Vietnam, the Philippines, Japan, South Korea, etc. one could clearly tell this bastard just want to grab all of its neighbours’ lands and seas, like the way it’s grabbing its own people’s land.
The US, India, Japan, Australia, Vietnam, the Philippines and other ASIAN nations should stick together to deter and to prevent China’s sea grabbing ambition. One would be extremely naïve or stupid to believe into the CCP’s propagandas such as China is a peaceful nation. One would even more stupid, if one would even listen to the CCP’s lackeys like, John Chan, Yang Zi, etc. on their numerous fabrications.
The World would be best to see a weaken China with a slow economic growth – like what we are seeing today. Without trade deals, investments and sharing advanced technologies, China will be dragging its feet to develop. Unemployment will rise and the Chinese people will stand up for their rights (fight against the CCP corrupted lands grabbing officials).
Mike
@John Chan.
Chinas peaceful rise? So what your saying is the US is bullying many of the smaller Asian countries. If this was true they would be turning to China and trying to form alliances with you. Instead what we see is nearly all Asian nations moving away from China towards the US. Why would they do this. The Answer is simple, China has and does bully the smaller nations of Asia while the US stands up for there rights. What you say is simply a lie.
On the present Chinese economy I would be more concerned with property prices plunging 35% in major chinese cities and a 50% collapse in sales in recent months. In any other country this is called a property crash. I wonder who will pay for all the millions of houses, apparments now worth far less than when chinese people or investors paid for them. Who pays for entrie cities built 5 years ago and remain empty today, who takes these losses. It is becomming more and more clear to those outside China that many facts on the economy are distorted or lies. Most now do not believe Chinas growth figures. Chinas debt is far higher than reported. When you actualy workd out Chinas Govt Debt it is equal to or larger than US debt as a % of GDP. So I would not talk about the economy, any country can produce cheap products and sell them cheaply. This is not hard to do and has been done my many nations before you, China only copies other nations success. China today is the West Cheap slave workers. As an example. The Iphone which is made in China. The total cost to produce and Iphone, market it, transport it and sell it is $167. The Iphone sells for about $500 in the US. Apple profits $333 no wonder they have so much money. The Chinese factory that makes the Iphone gets a total of $10 out of the $500. Economist have worked out that for every $1 China exports as products to the world, $0.55 comes to the US if the forms of profits for its corporations and share holders. Of the other $0.45 that remain much of this goes to Europe to its corporations and share holders and China is left with a small amount. Keep in mind Chinas GDP is used to produce mostly western products, sure Chinese workers get paid, but these huge profits go back to western companies and its share holders. This is why when you look at many of the large US corporations they have so much money. US corporations right now have more savings and are more profitable than at any time in US history. How is this possible when the US has just had a huge recession. That answer is China. China is simply the western corporations slave workers with bad enviromental polices making it easy to do business. Much of Chinas GDP is made up of making western products to sell, with most of the profits from that GDP going back to rich western share holders.
Is it any wonder why US/European/Japense car makers control 85% of all the care sales in China. Despite join ventures with local chinese produces, corporations are not stupid. They keep they best technology in there own countries and factories and produce the cheaper models in China. This is why we are yet to see many home grown Chinese corporations, they cant copy the good technology as it is kept away from them. A recent survey showed most Chinese people do not want to buy a Chinese produced and designed vehicle due to safety, realiability and style. They want to buy Western Cars. Its not only cars, Chinese people with money want to buy nearly anything that is western, clothese, perfumes, wines, planes and so on.
Chinas is the worlds cheap factory, its dosnt invent or innovate. While Chinese workers sweat, rich western share holders take most the money. China is being robbed you just have not opened your eyes yet due to being blinded by your own nationalistic hubris.
Shumai thui
Hear, hear, Mike. Well explained.
Let’s face it, why (even) Vietnam, the Philippines, Japan, etc had to call for the US’ helps, that’s said everything about the bullying China.
Just ignore all what the CCP lackeys saying and reviewing carefully at what the CCP and its PLA machine’s agressive actions during the last 2 years, then one can decide for oneself.
John Chan
@Mike,
As you said, the Westpac was very smart and was exploiting China; you also said the Westpac had all the upper hands, then why are they so afraid of China? Why are they talking up about China threat non-stop to scare themselves to death?
Are you proving the Chinese bloggers are right all along? China is subsiding the living standard of the Westpac nations at the expenses of Chinese? CCP should stop doing that and kick the FDI out of China as suggested by the Chinese bloggers.
Everybody knows the Westpac corporations are making huge profits in China, but their shareholders and CEOs are not sharing the profits with their compatriots, they rather cut jobs in their own countries and create new jobs in China meanwhile leave their compatriots unemployed and suffering. And you are supporting their traitorous behaviour, so what are you, a heartless neocon or a lackey of those greedy shareholders and CEOs? Do you think you should promote the Occupying movements in the Westpac nations as Jasmine Revolution instead of bad mouthing China baselessly?
It seems you and the Westpac are very confused and in total panic, they do not know whether China is a threat or savior, because China is beyond the scope of their understanding. They don’t know what to do and in total chaos, the Westpac is just like your contradicting comments, it reflects they don’t know if they are coming or going.
Mike, no nation in world can match “Made in China” in value from high end to low end.
DownRedChina
@Mike: Excellence analysis – very hard to swallow for many pro CCP supporters. I like your analysis on ASEAN countries are in US camp and China are facing dangers from all fronts.
I think if war breaks out between US and China, it’s a one-sided war.
In short I think China is going down by its own greed.
John Chan
@DownRedChina,
Mike’s comment is contradictory and illogical, he is mere ranting out of desperation.
You better pray China continues to grow, otherwise all ASEAN nations and India will go into depression real soon.
DownRedChina
@Chan: He’s done his homework well. He’s solid in his debate. I told you it’s hard to swallow for pro CCP supporters. It’s so true most Asian nations are in US camp (Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, Singapore, Thailand and Brunei), along with India and Japan, Taiwan, Australia and South Korea. Russia is neutral but if war breaks out, it will jump in to get back land China stole from her. Tibet, Xinjiang, inner Mongolia will have their land back too. A very interesting scenario is starting to form.
I want China to grow but not in the cheap/illegal ways (steal, copy and etc). China wants that oil in South China Sea and US is already there to deter her. Hard to eat that cake, huh?
John Chan
@DownRedChina,
China should not expect free lunch nor it should expect to earn respect if it cannot stand the heat in the kitchen. It is all about work-in-progress, China should not mind to pay the dues, but it is just unfortunate for Philippines and Vietnam that are not smart enough to avoid to be squeezed while the giants tangle.
DownRedChina
@John Chan:
Greed and land grabbing ambitions will pull CCP down and it’s unfortunate for innocent Chinese people. Greed and land grabbing ambitions don’t work in this 21st century anymore. When can China realize that? Be lawful, that’s all I can recommend for China. You should know by now the American doesn’t bluff (China does).
BTW, With one child policy, are Chinese families willing to let their only boy enlisting in PLA? I think not. China is breaking apart by the time 7th fleet arrives at SCS. Human wave doesn’t work against superior American weapons.
I hope Chinese people realize the ill intentions of those elite CCP. I also hope Chinese people take down CCP and steer China out of a brutal war. Stay strong the people of China.
John Chan
@DownRedChina,
You need to rant less, you hardly know anything about China. You are ranting American propaganda in the Korean War. Go and ask China consulate to get you a ticket to China, after visiting China you will regard you had made a fool of yourself by trolling trash relentlessly on this site.
DownRedChina
@John Chan: Come to China? For what? To witness car ran over 2 years old toddler and got ignored by its citizens, to witness CCP detain/house arrest 6 year old school girl, to witness CCP killed leader Wudan negotiator, to witness “Chinese eat babies” …
Thanks Chan anyway for the invitation.
John Chan
@DownRedChina,
Since you know nothing about China, so you admit you are ranting against China out of no reason, but blinding hate of China.
A Beijing girl student was rob on the first day she arrived Canada, then she was killed by a Whitman hit and run, while she was lying on the road, a white kid took her purse and used her credit card.
So DownRedChina, tell me how much different from your developed nation people from those walk by the 2 year old toddler?
DownRedChina
@John Chan:
Are you talking about Qian Liu? Duh, It’s simply a murder and it could happen to anyone and anywhere (White/Black/Hispanic/Asian). The murderer was in jail.
I wonder why you silence about “Chinese eat babies”. Disgusting, isn’t it?